and they're not addressing the real problems of america, which are jobs, productivity, education, science research, and withering infrastructure. this is appalling, and the american people should watch whatever's happening with a sense of disgust. >> you feel clearly very strongly. >> yes. >> why do you think we've got to this stage? what could turn it into a more positive narrative? >> i think we are at this place because the role of muddle in politics has overwhelmed, the lobbying process has overwhelmed the sound financial planning for the american people. we have a mess in the health care spending in the out years, which is real. but the costs of providing medical care through pharmaceutical monopolies, insurance monopolies and hospitalization monopolies means american people pays more than double what the rest of the people pay in the world. we're not fixing that. >> diana, is that your assessment of what we witnessed today? >> we are not making real attempts to cut spending, which is the problem. we have $16 trillion in debt. $1 trillion deficit. and what we're talking about today i